[PDF]

SYP - In Conversation with Georgia Leighton PDF Free Download

1 / 13
0 views•13 pages

SYP - In Conversation with Georgia Leighton PDF Free Download

SYP - In Conversation with Georgia Leighton PDF free Download. Think more deeply and widely.

SYP-InConversationwithGeorgiaLeighton
Sun,Jun08,202511:34PM 42:15
SUMMARYKEYWORDS
Spellbound,GeorgiaLayton,feministretelling,SleepingBeauty,writingprocess,publishingindustry,
creativewriting,marketingmanager,Penguin,fairytale,motherhood,genderpolitics,worldbuilding,
fantasynovel,bookpromotion.
SPEAKERS
Speaker1,PodcastIntro,GemmaMathers,GeorgiaLeighton
PodcastIntro 00:01
Gemma,welcometothisepisodeofInsidepublishing,theserieswhereweinterviewindustry
expertsoneverythingpublishing.
GemmaMathers 00:12
Hieveryone.I'mGemma,thepodcastofficeratSYP,UK.AndforthisepisodeofInside
publishing,IsatdownwiththelovelyGeorgina,thedebutauthorofthenovelspellbound,we
discussedherwritingprocess,workinginpublishing,herjourneyintotheindustryandallthings
spellbound.Ihopeyouenjoy.
Speaker1 00:35
Hello.SowelcometoInsidepublishing.Today,I'mherewithGeorgiaLayton,whoisthedebut
authorofspellbound,whichishittingtheshelvesonthe24thofApril,sobythetimeyou're
listening,itshouldactuallybeout.ThankyousomuchforcomingonthepodcastGeorgia.
GeorgiaLeighton 00:48
Thankyousomuchforhavingme.I'mdelightedtobehere.
Speaker1 00:53
Soforanyonewhomaynotknowaboutspellbound,couldyougiveusabitofarundownabout
thenovelandwhatit'sallabout?
P
G
S
G
S
GeorgiaLeighton 01:00
Yes,sospellboundisafeministretellingofSleepingBeauty.Butifyouknowthetaleof
SleepingBeauty,therearesomekindofsignificantdifferencesinmykindofretelling,my
versionofthetale.Sointheclassictale,aprincessisbornandshe'scursedatbirth,butinmy
version,whilstthathappens,nottoolonglater,asecondchildisborn,andeverybodyhasthe
ideatoswitchtheprincessestotryandputoffthecurse.Andthenwhatfollowsisthelivesof
thefourwomenwhowereinvolvedinthisruse,whothenhavetoworktogethertoreversethis
terriblecurse.Andtherearenohandsomeprincesthatrunintorunningtosavetheday.The
whole,thewholekindoffairytaleistoldfromtheperspectivesofthewomen.
GemmaMathers 01:49
Thatwashonestlyoneofthefirstthingsthatdrewmeinaboutthisbookwasthatthere'sno
princesaregoingtorunintosavetheday.It'scompletelyuptothesewomentotakethisof
like,thisstrange,horriblethingthat'shappenedtothem,andhowcantheymakeitwork?And
howcantheycometogethertosolvewhatseemstobeacompletelyunsolvableproblem,and
especiallytheninePrinceisrunninginIreallylovethat.Sowhatwasthewritingprocesslike
foryoufromkindoftheconceptionofthebook?Wasitalwaysgoingtobearetelling?Andhow
diditcomeaboutthatyousatdownandsaid,I'mgoingtowritethisnow.
GeorgiaLeighton 02:25
SoI'vealwayslovedwriting,andhavealwaysbeenwriting,andkindofonedaydreamedof
writingabookthatwepublishedeversinceIwasyoung.And,youknow,asateenager,I
absolutelylovedfantasynovelsandandstilldoevennow,butthat'skindofwherethatbegan,
andIwouldoftenreadretellingsaswell.SoI'vealwaysbeenobsessedwithfairytales.Andasa
kid,youknow,IlovedtheDisneyfairytaleretellingsthatthereare,yeah,soIkindofalways
tinkeredaroundwiththatkindofstuff.Butactually,wherespellboundbeganwaswhenmy
daughterwasborn.She'smyfirstchild,andbecomingaparentforthefirsttimewasamazing,
butitwasalsoquitekindofoverwhelmingandterrifying.AndIsortoffoundmyselfjustlonging
tojustdosomethingthatremindthatwasforjustforme,thatremindedmeofme.SoIkindof
startedwritingduringher,hernaptimes,andthentheeveningsaswell,probablywhenI
shouldhavebeenresting.ButIjustfeltreallycompelledtowrite,towritethisstory.AndIthink
Iwaskindof,yeah,writingmyselfoutofkindofanidentitycrisis,Isuppose,andkindof
remindingmyselfofoftheofthethekindofrealme,despitehavingkindofchangedintothis
sortofnewversionoflikeamother,Isuppose,
GemmaMathers 03:46
yeah,oh,that'sreallywonderful.IthinkIreallylikewhatyousaidabouthowyou'rereminding
yourselfofwhatyouloveandwhatyou'redoingandwhoyouare.AndIthinkwritingfor
everyonewhodoesitandcandoitissuchapersonalthing,andtofindsomethingthatyou
loveinit,andtobeabletomakethatintosomethinglikeyoucouldhold,Ithinkthat'sreally
wonderful.OneofthethingsIfoundsointerestingaboutyouisthatyoudidamastersin
G
G
G
G
creativewritingatRoyalHolloway,whichIalsoattended.Yeah,Ididmyundergrad.Idid
EnglishandCreativeWritingactuallyamazing.IdidEnglishtheretoo,butundergrador
mastersundergrad.
GeorgiaLeighton 04:22
SoIdid,IdidEnglishundergrad,andthenIstayedontodotheCreativeWritingmasters.
GemmaMathers 04:26
IwishI'ddonethat,andI'mstilltemptedtogobackanddoitnow.Sowhat,howdid,howdo
youfeellikeyourmasterskindofgaveyouabackgroundinwritingbeforeyoucametowrite
thebook?Didyoulikeobviously,I'msureithelpsinalotofways,aslikemycreativewriting
degreedoes,wasthatkindofthingwithapproachinganovel?DidyoufeelabitmorelikeI
knowwhatI'mdoing,orwasitstilllikeafreeforallblankpagejustgo?
GeorgiaLeighton 04:50
Ithinktherestillwasthefreeforallblank,blankpage,butIstillthinkaboutsomuchofwhatI
learnonthatmasters,andI'msureitmustbethesameforyouaswell.Uh,whenyoujust
there'ssomethingsokindofexposingaboutwritingsomethingandthenhavingkindof
workshoppedbyagroup,whichI'mguessingiskindofsimilartoyourexperiencehaving,yeah,
withcreativewritingandEnglishclasses.Andyoujustlearnalotaboutyourselfandasawriter,
andyouknow,kindofyourticsoftenandform,Iguess,andkindoflikehow,howyouapproach
thepage,Isuppose,becauseeverybodykindofdoesitdifferently,yeah,andthere'sjust
certainthingsthateitherpeopleinmyworkshopgroupsaidtome,ortheteachersIhadsaidto
me,butIstillremembernow,andkindofstillevenearlierontoday,actually,Iwaskindof
workingonanotherpieceofwriting,andIwassortofrememberingmyteacheratthetime
said,saidthis,thiskindofpieceofadvicethatIwriteverysparelyandthatIneedtogobackin
andfillinthekindofinformation.AndIwaslike,ohyes,that'sexactlywhatI'vedonehere.I
canseewriting,soIjustthink,yeah,ithelpsmeimmensely.Idon'tthinkthatyoudon't,you
don'tneedtohave,like,qualificationstowrite,butitcertainlyhelps,Ithink,andjustkindof
givesyouconfidenceandjustgetsyouusedtohavingfeedbackaswell.Ithinkwhenyou,if
youknow,ifyou,ifyou,ifyouwritesomething,andthenit's,it'skindofgoingtobepublished,
thenyou'regoingtohaveto,youknow,workonitwithaneditor.Yeah,yeah.Thatprocesskind
ofhelpsyouunderstandandgetusedtothat.
GemmaMathers 06:35
Yeah,Idefinitelyagreethatyoudon'tneedtodoacourseinit.Youdon'tneedtogotouniand
studyittobeabletobeabletodoitatall.There'ssomepeoplewhoarebrilliantwritersthat
haveneverstudieditadayintheirlife.Idoagree.Itdefinitelygivesyou,likeathickerskinwe
usedtodo.Wecallitsilentworkshops,whereyousitinsilenceandletsomeoneelsebasically
ripyourworktoshredsin,likeaniceway,inaconstructiveway.Butitreallymakesyoutake
onfeedback,andIthinkworkingeditoriallyinanysense,withapublisher,youaregoingto
havetolistento,probablystuffthatyoudon'twanttohearattimes,andcutthisandcutthat,
G
G
G
G
andchangethis,andyoujustgo.Butalso,whatyousaidaboutfillinginthegaps,you
definitelydidthatwithspellbound.Itwassodescriptive,andit'ssolikemagicaltoread.There's
somuchabouttheworldthatyougetonthepage.AndIyoudefinitelylistenedtothat
feedback,becauseitwasincredible.Whatwasitlikeforyou,goingfromsoyoudidtheMasters
increativewriting,howwasyourjourneyintopublishing?Becauseobviously,Iknowitcanbe
quiteatoughindustrytocrackforalotofpeople.Andyouareaseniormarketingmanager,so
how,whatwasitlike?Goingwell,IthinkImightwanttomakeacareerworkinginbooksand
workingwithbooks.And,yeah,whatwasthatlikeforyou?
GeorgiaLeighton 07:46
Yeah.SoIfinishedmycreativewritingmasters,whichIdidstraightaftermyundergrad,andI
thought,yes,youknow,Istillwanttokeepwriting,butIdoneedtohaveajobaswell.AndI
lovebooks,andIwouldlovetoworkinpublishingatthetimeIIwas,IwasdoingonlineIwas
partof,like,agroupofUKpeoplewhoweredoingbooksonYouTube,so,like,itwascalled
BookTube,kindofstillis,Iguess,alittlebit,althoughI'mverymuchlikeoutofthatscene,
althoughIwatchalotofthevideos,still,Idon'tmakethemmyselfanymore,butIwasdoing
that,andthiswasbackwhenthiswas,likequitenew,andthat'sactuallyhowIkindofgotmy
firstroleinpublishingwasIwas,sortofmyfirstroleinpublishingwasactuallyanAcademic
theologypublisher,soquitedifferenttowhatIdonow,whichis,I'mamarketingmanager,and
Iworkonmostlyfiction.IworkatPenguin,so,yeah,this,thisfirstrolewasverydifferent,andit
waskindofanassistantroleacrossmarketingpublicity,andIusedmykindofbooktube
backgroundasakindofawaytokindof,Iguess,showcasethatIhadskillsinanareathatthey
mightneed,andthatIcouldkindofbring,tobringtothepublisher.Becauseitwasjust,yeah,
justatthebeginningofpublishing,kindoftakingnoticeofsocialmediainaway.Andsince,
obviously,thingshavemassivelychangedsincethen,youknow,firstcameInstagram,andthen
nowcomenowhascomeTiktok.Soyeah,butIdothinkthatisstillaroutethatoftenpeople
cantake,becausewhenthere'snewplatformsthatcomeout,ifyouhaveknowledgeaboutthat
particularplatformandthentheaudiencethere,thenthat'slikegreatcurrencyforpublishers.
So
GemmaMathers 09:41
definitely,oh,that'sreally,like,sointerestingtoknow,especiallybecause,like,thethoughtof
YouTube,especially,likealltheplatformsaresopopulatedwithbooktokitself,sotobeatthe
kindofbeginningofitandgo,Thiscouldbesomethingthatreallyworks.That'sgreat.Thatis
like,
GeorgiaLeighton 09:54
Iwaslike,IwillsayIwaslike,sosmallfry,thoughI,youknow,likeIwasn't.I.Doing,no,butI
gotinvitedtosomegreatevents,which
GemmaMathers 10:03
wasone,yeah,Ithinkthat'sallyouneed,isn'tit?It'sjusttheonepersontogo,cometothis,
andthenyougo,andthenitjustspiralsintothenextthing,yeah,oneofthethingsIthinkis
G
G
G
G
andthenyougo,andthenitjustspiralsintothenextthing,yeah,oneofthethingsIthinkis
really,reallyinteresting,particularlyaboutyou,iswithspellbandbeingpublished,youkindof
havebeenoneverysideofit.Youhavenowtheauthor,butyou'vealsobeenonthemarketing
side,andyou'veworkedinthepublishingroutewhileabooksbeingformed.Whatwasitlikefor
yougoingthroughitasastheauthor?Wasitkindoflikeyoutakeabackseatorbecauseyou
knowhowthepublishingkindoflandscapeworks?Wereyoulike?ThisishowIwanttodoit.
Thishowweplayit.Whatwasthatlikeforyou?
GeorgiaLeighton 10:38
Yeah,so,IthinkIwasreallyhandsoff,andhavecontinuedtobe.AndI'mjustsoimpressed
withwhatthemarketingandpublicityteam,and,yeah,thewholepublishingteamatTrans
Worldhavedonewithspellbond.They'vejust,they'vejustdonesuchafantasticjob.ButI
reallydidn'twant,Ireallywent,wantedtogoin,youknow,handsinakindofhandsoffway,
becauseIthink,Idon'tthinkitwouldhavebeenhelpfulformetosortofcomeinwithlotsof
opinionsandthoughts,andIdidn'tneedto,anyway,becausethey'vedonesuchaFantastic
job.But,yeah,Ithink,Idefinitely,IthinkmybackgroundhashashelpedinsomewaysintheI
thinkitisverystrange.Asanauthor,oftenyou'reyou'reoftennottoldverymuch,andthen
suddenlythesekindoflikebitsofinformationwilldropintoyourinbox,sortofoutoftheblue,
andyousortofdon'treallyhaveanycontroloveranything.ButIfeellike,Ithinkbecauseof
havingbeenontheothersideofthat,Iknowhowhardthepeopleareworkingontheother
side,andhowmuchthat,youknowthey'reonmyside,theyreallywantthebooktodowellas
well.AndsoIsortofhavehavethatexperience,livedexperience,sothatIknowthat.ButI
thinkthatif,ifIhadn't,Ican,Icanreallyseehowoftenauthorssortoffeellikealone,abit
aloneandinduringthepublishingprocess,andabitkindoflikenervousandandworriedabout
whattheirteamortheirpublishersaredoing.Yeah,
GemmaMathers 12:17
definitely.Ithinkthat'sthethingwithwriting,especiallyit'slike,youastheauthor,youspend
solongwiththisbookanditbecomeskindofyourbaby,andyou'relike,Thisis,inaway,like
yourlife'swork.Thisis,like,probablyamassive,massivethingtodo,andthenfortogetit
published.Ithinkpeoplewouldunderestimatehowlongthepublishingprocesscanbe,andthat
ittakestime.Ithastogothroughalltheedits,ithastoget,like,marketing,publicity.Ithasto
actuallygetphysicallyprinted,anditdoestakealongtime.AndIfeellike,definitely,froman
author'sperspective,you'vegotconceptiontoactualpublication.Ittakesalongtime.Soyeah,
definitely,Ithinkhavingexperienceintheindustryisabonusinthatsense,because,you
know,it'sjusthowthingswork.It'snotYou'renotbeingignored.Youjustletthemdotheir
thing.Ithinkit'ssonicethatyouwentintoitandyouthought,I'lljustletthemdoit.Because
thinkalotofIfeelthatIwouldbetemptedtobelike,No,minewasprobablygoodtobelike,
headsoff,letthem,letthem,theprofessionals,dowhatthey'redoing,whichIquitelike,um,so
wasitalwaysmarketing?Didyouthinkwasitdefinitelymarketingthatdrewyouin?
GeorgiaLeighton 13:18
Yeah,Ithinkbecauseoftensomyrouteinwasthroughkindoflikesocialmedia,andoftenthat
sortofsitswithmarketing,butalsomysomyfirstrolewasamixtureofpublicityand
marketing.AndthereweresomeelementsofpublicitythatIreallyenjoyedaswell,butIthink
G
G
G
thatjustultimately,marketingjustsuitsmebetter.Ireallyenjoythemixofcreative,strategic
andkindofdataanalysisthatthat,Iguess,thatthatroleholds,and,andIYeah,andIjustlove
workinginmarketingandpublishing.Ithinkit'sbrilliant.Andyeah,despiteYeah,thewriting
thatI'vebeendoing.Youknow,I'vejustwantedtocontinuetoworkinmyrole,becauseIlove
itsomuch.Ilovethat.That'slikeforpeoplewholikeespeciallywanttogetintotheindustry,to
hearpeoplethathavebeeninitforawhile,tosay,Youloveit,andit'slikethebestthingthat
youdo.Ilovethat.Sobacktospellbound.Obviously,veryexciting.Comesoutnextweek.
Therewillbealinkinthedescriptionforthisepisodeforanyonelisteningwhowantstoorderit
orfindoutwhereyoucanbuyitfrom.
GemmaMathers 14:31
SospellboundisobviouslyaretellingofthetaleofSleepingBeauty.Solike,wasitalwaysgoing
tobesleepingbeauty,thefactthatfairytaleandhowimportantwasitforyoutomakeita
retelling,butalsomakearetellingthat'sperpetuallydifferentfromtheoriginalstory?
GeorgiaLeighton 14:49
Yeah,itwas,yes,itwasalwaysgoingtobesleepingbeauty.IthinkIkindofplayedaroundwith
differentretellingsofdifferentfairytalesinthepast,butyeah,thisspecificversion.AndIthink
SleepingBeautyisalwaysintriguedmeasasakindofataleandandthewaythatit'skindof
morphedovertime,and,youknow,thedifferentversionsthatyouhaveofit,it'squitea
straightevenifyouactuallyboilitdowntowhatactuallyhappensintheSleepingBeautyfairy
tale.It'squiteaweirdtaleoflike,yeah,agirlfalling,fallingasleepfor100years,andthen,
yeah,beingwokenupbyabyaprince,andgoing,great,Imarryyou.AndsowhatIwantedto
dowasIwantedtotakethekindofthebarebonesofthat,whichwaskindofthebeginningof
thetale,thesetup,thethethecursethat'sputontheprince.Princess.AndwhatIwhatI
wantedtodowasIwantedtothinkaboutorexplorewhatitwouldreallyfeelliketobethatgirl,
sothatistakenaway.Youdon'tknowthatyou'reaprincess,you're,youknow,broughtup,and
youdon'tknowmuchofyourbackgroundandandwhatitwasliketobethewomenaroundher
whoaretryingtodealwiththiskindofhugethingthathappened,yeah,andtryingtoprotect
her.AndIwantedtotryandYeah,sortofrealisticallyportraythat.ThatwaskindofwhatIwas
hopingtodo.AndI,andeachofthewomen,Isortofpurposefullywantedtoinhabitkindof
differentsocialhierarchy,youknow,thattheysitinatdifferentpartsofsociety,andIwanted
themtofeelkindofhopefullyuniquelydifferentintheirownintheirownway.Andso,you
know,they'redifferentagesandcertainlyhavedifferentpersonalitiesaswell.Soyeah,that
waskindofwhatIwanted.Ireallywantedthefairytaletofeelasrealaspossible.
GemmaMathers 16:48
Iguess,no,youdefinitely,definitelyachievethat.Ithink,likewiththecharactersIwhenIwas
readingit,Ifeltliketheyhadvery,verydistinctvoices.Youcansee,likethegriefandthe
sacrificesthatthey'vehadtomake,andthejoyinthesmallmomentsandhowthey'relike
fightingsohardforthiskindofonejoinedthing,butinsomanydifferentways,Ithoughtthat's
somethingreallybeautifulthatyoudidwiththisnovel.Wastheperspectivesofmotherhood
thatyouportrayedhere.Someofthesecharactershavehadtomakesomehugecellin
particular,obviously,tryingtomakethisasspoilerfreeaspossible.Andshe'skindofthrust
G
G
G
intothiskindof,it'snotevenreallyachoiceforher.She'skindofthrownthisbabyandgone,
cool.Youareinchargenowprotecther.Andforher,that'sahugethingtodo.Tosay,shekind
ofgoesfromareluctantshe'sjustpartofit,tobeingakindofmotherfigureandaguideanda
veryoverprotectiveotherinsome,somecases,whatwasthatlikeforyou?Howdidyou
approacheachofthesecharactersincreatingtheirvoices,andwhatkindofinfluencedit?Well,
IthinkSalthatholdsnarrative,youknow,ifIwastherapizingmyself,Iwouldsaythatthatwas
definitely,youknow,Iwas,Iwasjustsortofwritingmyexperienceatthetimeofjustbeinga
mumforthefirsttime.AndIguess,yeah,kindofcellchillisn'tme,butthatpart,thatpartof
thestory,Ithink,waskindoftryingtosortoffigureoutonthepagemyownkindof
experiencesofwhatwhatParenthoodwaslike.Sothat'swhere,that'swherethatcamefrom.
Andyeah,andIpurposefullydidwanttochoosewomenofdifferentages.There'sakindof
oldercharacterwho'stheladyinwaitingtotheQueenwhoseperspectivewehearfrom.And
yeah,Iwanted,Ithinkoften,wedon'thearthevoicesofolderwomen.Well,definitelynotin
fairytales.They'reeitherthey'renormallyevil,awitchortheevilstepmother.SoIwanteda
positiveolderfemalecharacterandvoiceinthere.AndIwanted,yeah,her,she,youknow,
she'skindof,sheishighborn,butshe'skindofadjacenttotheQueen,soshe'snotsortoflike
oneofyourkindofclassic,focusedcentralcharacters,yeah.AndthenIwantedtoaswell,hear
fromSalwhoisalowbornkindofcharacterwhoissortofmoreintheworldofacademia,butis
thrustintothiskindofverydomesticexperiencelookingafterthisprincess,andthen,yeah,the
voice,asIkindofsaidthere,therearesortoftwoprincessesatthecenterofthisandtheir
voices,andIreallywantedthemtobetwodifferent,verydifferentpeoplewho'vebeenshaped
bywhathappenstothem.Sowhetherthey'rethegirlthat'stherealprincessthat'ssortofbeen
takenoff,anddoesn'tknowthatshe'saprincess,andiskindoftryingtolivewithwithallthese
withallthiskindofmagicthat'sbeenthrustuponher,orthey'retheonethat'sbeenleftbehind
inherplace,whodoesn'treallyfittheidealofwhataprincessisthoughttobeorshouldbe,
yeah.AndIjustwanted.Toputallthosecharacterstogetherandkindofsee,seewhatwould
happen.Yeah,Ilovedit.Itwasespecially,definitelywiththeprincesses,thetwins,theyhadso
suchdifferentvoices,IthinkespeciallythatIhavealotoftwinsinmyfamily.Like,Oh,doyou
I'mfascinatedbytwins.Oh,mymumisatwin.Mygrandmaisatwin,andmyboyfriendisa
twin,andscary.AndIfeellike,whenyouknowthem,andyouseehow,like,they'vegrownup
together,andthatthey'resosimilarinsomanyways,butsodifferentinsomanyways.AndI
feelliketheinterestingthingwithspellboundwasthetwosisters,theygrowupcompletely
separate,andtheyhave,they'revery,verydifferent,buttheyalsohave,like,suchlittletraits
abouteachotherthataresosimilaratthesametime.Andyoucansensethatlikethey're
sisterswhodon'tknowtheirsisters,andtheyhave,like,acompletedoubleouttherethatthey
don'tknowabout.AndIreallyenjoyedespeciallygrowinguplikethesisterthatstaysbehind
andismeanttobeaprincess,butdoesn'tactlikeoneatall,andshedoesn'tknowanything
aboutthiskindofgrandworldthatsheshouldhave.AndIitwasareallykindoffunnydynamic
betweenherandtheladyinwaitingoflike,like,youshouldbeaprincess,andshe'slike,why?
Yeah.AndthenwithBriaraswell,growingupcompletelyoutofit,andhowsheherrelationship
withcellandthejourneybetweenthetwoofthem,Ireally,reallyenjoyedit.Ithoughtitwasso
welldoneandsopoignantaswell.Yousomuch.Sooneofthethings,especiallyinthisinthis
novel,isthingsaboutlikegenderpoliticsandkindofthetoxicmasculinityofit.AndonethingI
reallyenjoyedwasthatthemeninthisbookdon'ttakecenterstagealotlikethefairytalesdo,
wheretheprincecomesinandsavesthedayofagirlhe'snevermet.Suddenlythey're
married,andit'sglorious.Ithinkoneofthethingsislike,theydon'tnecessarilytake,like,a
hugebackseat,butthey'renotthepointofthestory,andthey'renotcenterfold.Andwhywas
itimportantforyoutoincludetheminthatway?
GeorgiaLeighton 21:54
G
GeorgiaLeighton 21:54
Ithink,yeah,Ijustwantedtogiveyou,know,Isortof,IguessIthoughtaboutmyselfasa
youngchildwatchingalotofthesefairytales,andthen,youknow,asateenagerreadingalot
ofthesefantasyretellings.AndIjustwantedtogivethatyoungermeanotherversionofthe
storywheretheprincemightwellbethereand,youknow,theymightwellfallinlove,maybe,
butshesells,shesavesherself,or,youknow,orshe'ssavedbythewomenaroundher.She
doesn'tneedtosortofaherotokindofrescueher.
GemmaMathers 22:33
Ilovethat.Yeah,onethingthough,becausethis,therearesomekindofdarkeraspectsto
spellbound,butIreallythoughtitwasquiteaverygoodreflectionofkindoftheworldthatwe
liveinandthesociety,andwhileit'snotbuiltinourcurrentworldandrealityandstuff,because
thatisoneofthebeautifulthingsaboutfantasy,isyoustripeverythingaway,andyoubuildup
yourownbarsandyourownmagicsystemsandyourownintricacies.Andtherewerestillsome
thingsIfeltthatreflectedinoursociety,particularlythere's,Iwon'tgointotoomuchdetail,but
there'samomentwithSalinanalleyway,andsheleavesabaroratavernlateatnight,and
she'swalkingalone,andshegetsapprehendedbysomeone.AndIthinkitwasareallykindof
poignantandimportantscene.Andforme,itwashergoing,I'mnotgoingtoletthishappento
me.I'mnotgoingtoletsheIthinkit'stheinstinctofthingtogo,Okay,thisisgoingtohappen,
andwhatwillbewillbe.Andthenshejustgoes,no,that'snothappeningtome.It'snot
happeningtomeagain.Iwillnothavethis.AndIthoughtthatwasreally,reallysmartwayto
goaboutit,tohavesomethingthathappensprobablyallthetimeinourworld.Maybeitmight
notbetalkedabout,buttherearethingsgoingoneverywhere.Andtohavethatreflectedina
bookinsuchainsuchapoignantway,Ireally,reallyloved,andIthinkwhatwasitliketowrite
thosescenes?Obviously,you'regettingabitlikedarkerinthisworld,andhowwasittowrite
andwhatkindofresearchwentintoit,maybe,orwhatinfluencedit,orwherewereyouwhen
youwerewritingit?
GeorgiaLeighton 24:03
Yeah,oh,no,thankyou.I'mreallypleasedthatthatscenefeltstruckyouandfelttruethat,
yeah,that'swonderfultohear.Alotofcare,I'dsayalotofcarewentintothosescenes.AndI,
youknow,Ithoughtabout,IthoughtaboutthemalotbecauseIwasawareofwantingtobe
reallytruthfulinwhatIwassaying,butatthesametimeortruthfulintheexperienceofwhat
canhappentooftentowomen,butbutalso,IneverwantedtoStepintoaplacewhereitfelt
glorified,orlikeitwasusedasaplotpoint,ifyouknow,Imean,thatwasreallyimportantto
me.Ididn't,Ididn'twantthattohappen.AndIhadakindofafew,likeBETAreadersatthe
beginning,andsomebodydidgivemethefeedbackthattheyfeltthatitsortofshould,Ishould
pushthatkindofdarker,andthatIsortofcametoa.Youknow,cametoapoint,butthat,you
know,theywouldhavelikedittobekindofpushedfurther.Butactually,youknow,andI
thoughtaboutthatalot,butactually,IfeltthatwhatIhaddepictedwasdarkenough,andthat,
inaway,youknow,theseterriblethingsthathappeninourworldarejustawful.Ididn'tsortof
want,youknow,Ijustwantedtoreadsocarefulabouttreadingthatlinebetween,yeah,
betweenkindofglorifyingsomething,butatthesametimeexploringitinawaythatwaskind
ofcarefulandtruthfulasmuchasIasIpossiblycould.
GemmaMathers 25:37
G
G
G
G
GemmaMathers 25:37
Ithinkyoudefinitelydidit.Itwasoneofthesethings.Iwasreadingit,anditwaskindofa,you
know,youhavethosemomentsyou'relike,putthebookdownandbreathe.Iwasactually,and
Iwaslike,itwasharrowing,inasense,butitwasalsosopowerful,becauseitwaslike,I
completelyagreewiththedecisionyoumadenottogofurther.BecauseIthinksometimesit
cantakeawayfromthepointyou'retryingtomake.AndIthinkyoudefinitelygotwhatyou
neededtoacross.BecauseitwaslikeaOh,Iwaslike,almostlikeabreathofreliefforIwas
like,yes,fightback.Andshedid.AndIwasjustlike,ohyes.Anditwaslike,stillsoharrowing.
Andsolike,theminuteitwas,Ithink,asagirlandaswomen,universally,evenreading
somethingwhichtheminutesheleftthatliketabinthebar,Iknew,andIwasjustlike,oh.And
itwassowelldone.AndIdefinitelythinkyoumadetherightchoicetheretogo.Wherecanwe
kindofputapininittomakeitsoimpactful?AndIthinkthatdefinitely,definitelylanded.So
oneofthethingsdefinitelydidhereis,obviously,there's,like,somanyinfluenceshere.You've
gotthegenderpolitics,you'vegotthisaspect.Ofthementakingabackseat.Andoneofthe
thingsthatwetouchedonwashowthewomenhavevery,verydistinctvoices.Andoneof
themthatIreallylikedwasIdon'tknowifI'mgonnapronounceitright,becausethisiswhat
happenswhenyouread,isthatyoupronouncethingswrongandfeel,yeah,yeah.Violanna?
GeorgiaLeighton 27:02
Violanna,
GemmaMathers 27:02
Violanna,herchaptersinparticular,reallystoodouttomebecauseititwasaveryinteresting
takethatIalmostdidn'texpectinitially.Withher,obviously,youhavethetwosisters,and
they'reseparated.AnditwasherrelationshiptoTaliathatreallyinterestedme,becauseshe
seemssomeonewhoissolostinhergriefthatshealmostcan'tgiveeverythingtoher,tothis
daughterthatshestillhas,thatisstillhere.Howwasthatforyoutowrite,andwhatkindof
wasthethoughtprocessthereofthatrelationshipbetweenthetwoofthem?Yeah,oh,I'mso
pleasedthatyoulikedher,becauseIthinkalotofpeopledon't,whichisfineaswell.Like,
that'sfine,youknow,ifthat'showreadersfeel,andthenwhentheyreadit,that'sfine.ButI
reallylikeher,andfeelalotofsympathyandempathyforher,butobviouslyhavingwritten
her,but,yeah,Ithinkalotofpeoplekindofthinkthatsheis,like,horribletoher,toher
remainingchild,anddoesn'tkindoflikegiveherthelovethatshedeserves,whichistrue.But
I,IsupposeIkindofecho,IguesswhatIwassayingearlierwasthatinthekenhercase,so
she'sthequeenwhohashadthetwodaughters.Ireallywantedtoexplorewhatitwouldfeelor
kindofaskmyself,whatwouldthatreallyfeellikeifyouhadkindof,evenifitwastosavethe
child,butyou'dsentoneofyourchildrenawayforkindofforever?Andyeah,Idon'twanttogo
intotoomuchlikekindofplotthings,butifyouknow,ifpartofthereasonthatthisterrible
thinghadhappenedhadsomethingtodowithyou,and,andhowwouldthatguiltmanifestand,
andwhatwouldyou,howwouldyoutreatthechildthat'sleftbehindwithyou?AndIkindof,
yeah,IsupposeIthoughtalotabouttraumaandkindofhowthatwouldmanifestandplayout
inarealkindofmotherdaughterrelationship.Andsothat'skindofwhere,whereI,whereIsort
ofcamefromwithherinthat,Iguess,fromfrommyperspective,sheshelovesherdaughters
bothequally,andsheloves,shedoesloveTalia,butsheisjustunable,becauseofwhat's
happened,togivehertheverykindofloving,clearrelationshipthatshewouldliketo
definitely,Idefinitelyfeltthatreadingit,IwasI'mInterestedtoknowthatpeopledon'tlikeher
G
G
G
because,me,itwaslikeIIthinkwhenpeoplegothroughgriefanddifferenttraumas,obviously
everyonereactstodifferentandmaybepeoplewouldthinkthattherationalthingtodobeto
clingontothischildthatyouhaveandholdherascloseasyoucan.ButIthinkinthiscase,it
maybethat'stoopainful,andmaybeshecan'tandlikethat.WhenIwasreadingit,thatwas
and.Yougo.TherewerepointswhereIwasjustlike,pleasejustholdjusttellher.Butthenalso
youcompletelyunderstandit,whereyou'relike,shecan't.Ithoughtthatwas,itwasareally
interestingtakeonitforme,becauseIthinkmaybethesaferthingtodowouldhavebeento
havethatandtogo,I'mgoingtoholdherreallytightly.AndIthoughtitwasareallyinteresting
narrativestructuretogo,shecan't.AndIdidreally,reallyenjoyit.OneofthethingsI
particularlylikewitharetellingis,howisit,kindofapproachingit?Becauseit'slike,what
novelstakealotoftime,andtheytakealotof,like,research,almost,andit'salotofworld
building.Youhadareallyinterestingmagicsystemhere.Ithought,whatwasitlike,kindof
startingtowriteit?Wasitkindoflike,alotofwatchingSleepingBeauty,alotofreadingsleep
beauty?Wasitlike,youknowwhatyouwanttodowithit?Howcanwechangeit?I'mjust
interestedtoseehowaretellingwouldwork.
GeorgiaLeighton 30:50
Yeah,Iso,IthinkIsoIknewthefairytaleofSleepingBeautyfairlywell,andhadalsoread
quitealotofretellingsjustovertheyears,justbecauseIreallyenjoyretellings.SoAngela
Carterhasalotofretellings.Iactually,can'tactuallyrememberwhethershehasaspecific
SleepingBeautyretelling,butshehasalotoffeministretellingsoffairytales,asI'msureyou
know,youknow.AndsoIwasreallyfamiliarwiththekindofthebarebonesofthestory,andI
justhadhadthisideaforalongtimeaboutwhatwouldhappenifthereweretwoprincesses.
Basically,thatwaskindofmyidea,whatwouldhappenifthebecause,likeIsaid,I'vealways
beenreallyinterestedintwins,andthekindofdynamicbetweensiblingsjustgenerally
interestsmequitealot.And,yeah,Iwonderedwhatwould,whatwouldhavehappenedifthe
queenhadanotherchildsecretlythatnooneelsekindofknewabout,andthentheydecidedto
swapthem.Andthatwaskindof,Iguess,thekindofthesortofnugget,thebeginningofthe
idea,andthenworldthatIthensortofranwithandkindoftook,youknow,Isortofknewwith
theretelling.Isortofknewthekindofthebarebonesofthestory,andthat,youknow,the
cursetakesplaceanumberofyearspass,andwehavetohavethekindofthebigshowdown,
asitwere,forthecursetokindofcometofruition.SoIsortofknewroughly,kindoftheshape
ofthestory,Iguess,andthen,andIwasjustkindoffillinginthedetails.Andthen,although,
onethingIwouldsay,though,isthatthatdidholdacoupleof,like,trickynarrativethings,I
guess,becausethat'squitealotoftimethatyouneedtofeellike,asin,it'slikemanyyears
thatyouhavetowaitfortheprincesstobeoldenoughto,youknow,frombirthto,like,16
years.Andinthe,inthe,youknow,intheDisneyversion,theyjustsortof,wehave,likea
musicalnumber,andtheyearshavepassed,whereas,yeah,Iwantedto,kindofYeah.Iwanted
toknowwhattheywoulddo,youknow,tofillinwhattheywereallthecharactersweredoingin
thattime.So,yeah,soitwaschallenginginthatway,butbutalsofunaswell.Andthenworld
buildingwise,Ijustabsolutelyloveworldbuildinginfantasynovels.It'soneoftheMyFavorite
Thingstoreadis,youknow,whenIthinkthatanauthorhasjustwrittenareallygoodworld,I
loveit.Soapproachingthatwasso,actually,sofun.Ireallyenjoyedit.Andkindofthinking
through,youknow,whatthiscountry,whattheculturewouldbelike,andwhatthekindof
countriesarounditwouldbelike,andwhatwouldbethepoliticalatmospherethatthewhole
kindofstorywastakingplacein.Ireallyenjoyedallofthat.ButIguessforme,WhatIenjoyed
mostwas,Iguess,tryingtokindofdepictmaybewhatalotofushaveinourreallives,inthat
thereisakindofwhole,sortof,likeotherworldaroundus,andakindofpoliticalatmosphere
thatwe'relivingin.Butitdoesn'talwaysnecessarilyaffectourdaytoday,ifyouknowwhatI
G
mean,ohyeah,definitely.That'swhatIwaskindoftryingtoportrayinthestory,aswellas
there's,youknow,there'swarsgoingon,andthere'skindofotheraspectsatplayinthe
backgroundoftheirlives,butthey'renotactivelytakingpartinthesethingsinthesameway
thatweprobablydon'teither,butwe'reawareofthemhappening,andtheydokindofchange
thecourseofofourdaytodayinakindofindirectway.Sothat'skindofwhatIwaskindof
tryingtodo.
GemmaMathers 34:23
Ithatthatisvery,verytrue.That'soneofthethingsIliked,especiallyhavingmultiplepointof
viewshere,isthatthey'reall,like,investedinit,indifferentareas,andthey'reinlike,different
ways.Andalmostlikesalescharacterislikeoutintheworld,verymuchtryingto,like,almost
runfromit.She'sjustlikemustdowhatIneedtodo,whereasothersarelike,lostinit,or
they'relike,builtaroundit.Andwhat,likethedynamicyoumentionedearlierwiththeQueen
andtheladyinwaiting,andhowalmosttheyflipatsomepointsbecauselikecircumstances
thathappeninthebookthatIwon'tgointobecauseofspoilers,butIthoughtitwas.Really
interestingthingtodo,tosayyoubecauseyouaresorightthat,like,there,God,there'sso
muchgoingonintheworld,politicallyandeverything,andthere's,well,everything,wars,
politics,allofthatstuff.Butdaytoday,youjustgetup,yougotowork,youcomehome,you
dowhateveryoudoinyourday,andyoudon'tsittherealldaygoing,thisishappeningright
now.AndIreallyfeltthatthroughthebookwhereit'slike,it's,youcanseewhereit's
influencingthem,andwhenthestructurescominginwithoutthembeinglike,brokeninto
turmoilallthetime.Sodefinitelythatwas,like,verywelldone.Ireallylikedit.Thankyou.I
thinksomepeoplefinditabitannoying,whichIdounderstand.Theywerelike,whytheyhave
allthesewarsgoinglike,Iwanttobeonthebattlefield.Iwanttobelike,outthereseeing
whichIwhichIdo,IdogetbutthatwaskindofliketheoppositeofwhatIwastryingtodo.
Yeah,no,Ilikedit,though,becauseit's,like,it's,it'sadifferenttake.Ithinkforalotofbooks
likethis,like,therearesomanywaysthey'recompletelythrownin.Andsometimesit'sniceto
havetheoppositesideofit,becauseyouarerightinthatwedon'tdaytoday,we'renotatwar,
andwe'renotdoingthisorwhatever,likeI'matwork,I'mtakingcareofmyfamily,although
likethingslikethis.No,Ireally,Ireallydid,reallylikethat.SooneofthethingsIwantedtoask
isprobablyeveryauthor'slike,leastfavoritequestion.Butwhat'snext?Isthereanyother
retellingsthatyouhaveinmindwillalwaysbearetelling.Isthereapotentialforanother
spellbound,eventhoughIdidgetthevibeitwouldbeastandalone,butIreallylikedit.
GeorgiaLeighton 36:28
Well,Iknowhowthestorycontinueswithspellbound,soyouknow,we'llseewhathappens
there.Butyes,there'sdefinitely.I'vewrittenanother,anothernovel,andit'saretelling.It's
withinthesameworld,butadifferentcountry,which,again,hasbeenreallyfuntolike,zoomin
ondifferentpartoftheworldandkindofremake,recreateawholenewkindofculture.And
that'sbeenreallyfun.Andit'sa,itisaretelling.Ijustreallylovewriting,andit's,IthinkIcan
sayit'saretellingofGeorgeandtheDragon,buttherearenoknightsthatcomeinto
GemmaMathers 37:05
Idon'tthinkI'veeverheardofaretellingofGeorgeandtheDragon.
G
G
G
GeorgiaLeighton 37:09
Oh,wow,that'sgood.
GemmaMathers 37:12
I'llkeepmyeyespeeledforthat,becausethatsoundsveryexciting.Thankyou.Touchingona
fantasybook,onelikeforme,absoluterequirementinafancybookisamap.AndIknow
there'samapandspell,howamIanimportantdecision?
GeorgiaLeighton 37:29
Oh,100%I,youknow,IsaidIabsolutelylovethecoverthattheTransWorldofcrazy.Ithinkit's
reallybeautifulwithallofmynerdyfantasydreamscometrue,but,butI,butIeven,even
thoughIloveitsomuch,Iwas,like,mostexcitedaboutthemap.
GemmaMathers 37:46
SoI'mlike,anyfantasybook,I'lllikeopenit,andifthere'snotamap,doIevenbother?
Where'sthemap?Lookatthissoexciting.SoIhavetwofinalquestions.One'sabitmore
publishingrelated,andtheotherone'sbookplated.Sowhatadvicewouldyougivetoanyone
whowantstobecomeanauthor,oriswritingandwantstogetpublished,orisjustlookingto
startwritinginanyinanyway?
GeorgiaLeighton 38:10
Yeah,Iwouldsay,doit.Justdoitandandhaveifyoucanhavefunwithit,becauseitisreally
funandIthinkthateverybodyhasastorytotell.And,yeah,it'shard,Ithink,tositdown
sometimesandto,like,kindofhavethemotivation,andnoteventhemotivation,justlikethe
confidence.Sometimesyoucouldjustloseyourownworstenemy.ButsoIwouldsay,Justdoit.
Justgoforit.Andalso,I'dsay,ifyouwanttokindofimproveyourwriting,orthat'swhatI'm
alwaystryingtodo,istojustreadloads,youknow,read,readintheareasthatyouwantto
writein.Sowhetherthat'slikeaspecificgenre,orsomethinglikethat,orevenreadinthe
areasthatyoudon'twanttowritein,either.BecauseIthinkthatthere'sjustthere'sjustso
muchthatyoucanlearnfromotherotherpeople'scraft.SoIguessthosewouldbemymain
piecesofadvice,andjustdon'tgiveupaswell.Justkeepgoing.Definitely
GemmaMathers 39:13
Oneofmyfavoritethings,whichIactuallygotfromoneofmyprofessorsatHolloway,wasI
wastalkingtohimaboutwritingabookanddrafting.Hejustlookedatme,whenafirstdraftis
supposedtobebad,hewaslike,that'swhatit'sfor.It'sjust,he'slike,justgetitalldownonthe
pageandworryaboutitlater.Andthatwas,like,thegreatestthingI'deverheard,becauseI
G
G
G
G
G
G
wasjustlike,Whatdoyoumean?Thisfirstthingdoesn'thavetobetheabsolutebestthingI've
everwritten.Hastoagree,yeah,yeah.Andit'slike,he'slike,itdoesn'thavetobegood,butit
hastobethere.Andthatwas,like,thebestthingI'deverheard,good.Mylastquestionwasfor
whatadvicewouldyougivetoanyonewhoislookingtobreakintopublishingorjustlookingto
getintotheindustryingeneral?Becauseitiskindofquite.Wellknownasquitehardindustry
tocrack,especiallythesedays.Soyeah,whatadvicewouldyougivetoanypublishing
hopefuls?
GeorgiaLeighton 40:07
Definitely.Iwouldsay,pleasekeepapplying,becausewe,yeah,wewantarealdiverserange
ofpeopleinpublishingandyeah,andallthekindoftalentacrossmanydifferentareas.Iwould
say,trytogetworkexperience,ifyoucanthatissoimportantandjustreallyhelpfulandwill
justkindofgiveyouareallygoodunderstandingofwhatyouwanttodoinpublishing.Because
Ithinkautomatically,everybodythinksabouteditorial,ofcourse,buttherearesomany
differentrolesthataresuitedtoallsortsofdifferentkindofpersonalitiesandexpertise.And
yeah,youdon'thavetojustworkworkineditorial.Soifyoucangetexpworkexperienceand
workingotherdepartments,thendoandagain,Ithink,bitsimilartothewritingadvice,Iwould
say,justkeepreadinglikereadlots.Because,youknow,onethingthatIthinkwouldalways,
wouldalwaysimpressaninterviewer,isapassionforforbooksandfortheparticularlyifyou
areabletokindofdemonstrateapassionforthebooksthattheypublish,Ithinkthatthatgoes
ahuge,alongwayaswell.Soyeah,Iguessthatthatwouldbemyadvice.
GemmaMathers 41:21
Thankyousomuchforthat.Thatwasgreat.Andforeveryonelistening,spellboundcomesout,
wellnextweek,forus,whenyou'relisteningtothis,itwillverylikelyalreadybeout.Soyeah,
I'llputalinkinthebioandjustgo,gocheckitout,buythebook.It'sreally,reallygood.And
thankyousosomuchforcomingonthepodcastGeorgia.
GeorgiaLeighton 41:39
Ohwell,thankyousomuchforhavingme.I'vehadsuchagreattime.
GemmaMathers 41:43
Oh,I'mglad.Thankyoueveryoneforlistening.Thankyouforlisteningtoinsidepublishing.I've
beenyourhost,Gemma.Ifyouenjoyedthisepisode,pleaserateandreviewusonApple
podcastsSpotify,orwhereveryoulistentoyourpodcasts,itreallyhelpsustoreachmore
people.Alsofeelfreetoletusknowyourthoughtsonsocialmediaorsendsuggestionsourway
atpodcast.syp@gmail.com.Seeyounexttimeyou.
G
G
G
G